Watch this episode on YouTube!

Get ready listeners for a most unusual and heavy and unique show with my old friend Tom Hodge!

Tom is an endurance adventurer living an interesting dream life of enjoyable but extensive endurance exercise every day, traveling the globe for major events, mixing with top athletes and watching them perform, and being on this amazing journey that he’s going to tell you about in this episode. You will hear about his recent global odyssey and how it turned into a fantastic exploration of how childhood trauma affects us all our whole lives, how we use distraction, endurance, suffering, and drinking to avoid facing things and also how Tom hit rock bottom and then abruptly turned everything around by staring at a wall.

You will hear Mark Sisson’s name brought up often in the story and learn about the special relationship Tom and Mark share and how Mark was the only person who “saw through everything.” I think this show will be really valuable for everyone to reflect on how we carry stuff our whole lives and the benefits of waking up and doing honest self-assessment. As my former podcast guest Bruce Lipton says, our subconscious programming occurs from age 0-7 and then we operate from our subconscious 95% of the time, for the rest of our lives! Listen as Tom goes deep and gets vulnerable, incredibly honest, and reflective as he talks about his wild ride. It’s a pretty colorful show—you will hear about how he went from UCLA student to being a highly paid model in Japan after getting randomly discovered—a career that took him around the world for 25 years. You will learn why Tom eventually rejected his victim mentality, reconciled his childhood issues with gratitude, self-exploration (without any outside help), and turned things around to where he stands today.

It’s wild, it’s mind blowing, and you are going to love this show, especially if you’re a younger listener and dreaming of a career and trying to figure out which career path to take. Regardless of age or where you’re at in your life, there are so many valuable lessons to take away from this show, especially the importance of self-exploration and honesty and avoiding our collective penchant for distraction every second of every day so we don’t have to face things that might unlock a path to a more fulfilling and grateful life.

TIMESTAMPS:

Psychological experts today talk about how our childhood programming is something we play out every day. [01:08]

It shouldn’t matter if you are first or last.  It is what you get out of the activity itself. [06:12]

How does one define failure? How can one deal with insecurities? [07:52]

Childhood programming is being studied more and more as for its effects on our current personhood. [15:42]

Usually when are drinking excessive alcohol, you are trying to numb some childhood trauma. [17:40]

Tom had to leave his dysfunctional family and try to make it on his own. [20:56]

Because of Tom’s dyslexia, he had difficulty reading.  He bought a book to read, determined to master that skill. At the same time, he committed to exercise, all this to avoid alcohol. [30:32]

Addiction to exercise can be toxic. [43:58]

If your grip strength is weak, it is directly correlated with your predicted lifespan. 

The greatest currency one can have is time. [01:00:32]

How does one learn to deal with this subject of childhood trauma? [01:07:42]

There is much more distractibility in today’s world.  Much more stress than before advanced technology. [01:12:26]

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TRANSCRIPT:

Tom (00:00:38):
I’ve only raced only four Ironmans this year. So you take the four Ironmans and you multiply it by how many hours they’ve worked out. Mm-Hmm. . And then you look at the diets and the sugars they eat in order to do it. It’s like this vicious. Yeah. And that’s where I’ve talked about when you think about ego. So the validation of, like, I, you know, and I don’t know how many Ironmans I’ve raced, but I am very proud that I don’t have an Ironman tattoo.

Brad (00:01:08):
Get Ready listeners for a most unusual and heavy and unique show with my old friend Tom Hodge. He’s an endurance adventurer, living the dream life where he travels around the world and participates in these extreme ultra endurance events, or goes to watch the best athletes. And, uh, is just on this amazing journey that he’s going to tell you about. And I thought that would be kind of the centerpiece of the show, of how fun it is to go and do all these challenging events and train properly. Uh, but we got into some heavy stuff as it relates to his past, his childhood dramas that he refused to acknowledge and deal with throughout his life. And the amazing journey that he’s come upon, uh, to arrive today at sort of this Walter Mitty, character on the ultra endurance scene. And you’re gonna learn about some things that I think are relevant to everyone, because many of the behavior psychological experts today talk about how our childhood programming is something that we play out for the rest of our lives.

Brad (00:02:20):
You remember my former podcast guest, Bruce Lipton, author of Biology of Belief, where he describes how our subconscious programming occurs from ages zero to seven when we’re like a sponge, and then we operate from our subconscious programming 95% of the time for the rest of our lives. So if we don’t acknowledge and process things that happen to us in childhood and beliefs that we formed, and perhaps traumatic experiences of whatever level, if we don’t face those and reconcile with them, we will potentially create pain, suffering, and destruction. And Tom is gonna tell you about a little bit of that. And it’s, it’s really a wild conversation that it’s hard to describe and pinpoint here for an intro, but this guy goes deep, he gets vulnerable, he’s incredibly honest and reflective, and he’s gonna tell you about a very colorful wild ride.

Brad (00:03:17):
He was a U-C-L-A student, really struggled to get there with some learning disabilities in school, but he went for it and was plugging along in college. And then he was randomly discovered and in a very short time, a snap of the fingers. He became a very highly paid model in Japan. And that career lasted for around 25 years and took him all over the globe. He was in the background, suffering and struggling. And I think it’s, again, it’s gonna be relevant to, to everyone, especially young listeners, dreaming of career and a career path. But I think it’ll be valuable for everyone to consider the importance of self-exploration and honesty, and avoiding our collective penchant for distraction every second of every day so we don’t have to face things that might unlock a path to a more fulfilling and grateful life.

Brad (00:04:16):
And boy, it sounds like Tom has done a lot of work here and is now really in a good spot. I think you’re gonna love, love this conversation with Tom Hodge. And guess whose name comes up a lot, Mark Sisson, and man, this guy was a mentor and a guide for Tom and a truly good friend at a very deep level. And so it’s gonna be there’s gonna be some emotional, uh, commentary coming out where Mark was a driving force in this whole, this whole game here. So, have some fun listening to this one.

Tom (00:04:47):
Tom Hodge. I caught up to this guy who’s the global endurance adventurer. So it is a rare privileged event to sit down with you and talk about the amazing happenings. You’re like, you’re like, Walter Mitty in real life here. So I thought we would get into some of your interesting story, um, maybe jumping right now to this recent, um, you know, transition in your life where you’re getting to do, what you wanna do and really go for it. So why don’t you describe like your, you know, your training schedule, your event schedule, your travel schedule, and, uh, how it all, how it all came to be.

Tom (00:05:30):
Wow. Okay. Well, that’s . I have the luxury of having time. So with time, obviously, I try to fill it with being creative, being healthy. So every day I sort of wake up and try to figure out what’s gonna be the most sensible way to stay healthy and active and moving till I don’t wanna live to a hundred.

Brad (00:05:54):
No?

Tom (00:05:54):
No. I’d rather play really hard.

Brad (00:05:57):
Okay.

Tom (00:05:57):
Not follow any rules, really. Um, and then when I go, I go, but I’m gonna go happy.

Brad (00:06:04):
Could that be a success formula to get to a hundred? Incidentally, because of your attitude and your penchant for playing?

Tom (00:06:12):
It very well could be. So in other words, just not counting on it. , you don’t want a wheelchair to a hundred, you want just, you know, live long drop dead like Mark Sisson says. So I guess what I’m saying is that you, you can, I, I got really obsessive about diets and coming from the, you know, the triathlon background. It was like logging miles and heart rates and all these things. And obviously b the one thing that I think is driven most about with anybody is ego. So it’s been this process of trying to let the ego go uhhuh. And the more I can let the ego go, it’s not meaning if I show up at a race or an event, it’s not an ego that’s driving me to perform well. Right. You know, so it’s more about like today’s event where it’s a community thing where I, I want to be around people that are healthy. I want to be around people that start to get the same vibe. And I guess like today’s thing is about a trail runner, just going out in the mountains and being able to, you can walk, you can hike, power hiking, which is a big thing with ultra running.

Tom (00:07:19):
You could go super high heart rates and kill yourself and be, you know, first place and Vermont and get to that, you know, that post race food quicker. But to me it’s just sort of, it doesn’t matter if you’re first or last, it’s sort of what you get out of it today.

Brad (00:07:37):
So, so how did you, uh, how were you able to transition to this type of mindset versus when you were one of the, one of the tri geeks dropped in the arrow position and trying to beat everybody?

Tom (00:07:52):
To be very honest, huge failure in a lot of probably between 20 to, yeah, 45, 50 failing at life, basically.

Brad (00:08:10):
Do you still call it failure? Or do you feel like your journey, you know, some people have that high-minded reflection where it was all part of the process, but, um, I’m not inclined that way myself, but, uh, that’s pretty, that’s a pretty harsh statement, but maybe we should, uh, I, you know, go ahead. Figure that out.

Tom (00:08:30):
You can’t be perfect in life. And I think everybody, again, when ego’s involved and you expect something in life, whether it’s driven by material objects or race results, or going to the right university, whatever it might be, you’re gonna fail. Mm-Hmm. . And the, I think the more you fail, I found the more I failed, the more I tried to make up for it with my insecurities of grabbing at things. Mm-Hmm. . Does that make sense?

Brad (00:08:59):
What do you consider fail? Uh,

Tom (00:09:06):
That’s a good question.

Brad (00:09:07):
I mean, what, what areas was it a failed business of, not placing as high as you wanted in triathlon relationships?

Tom (00:09:14):
I think it was a common, I think it was relationships, friendships. I think it was failure. I identify my childhood issues from my childhood that ultimately led to my, you know, probably the biggest downfall in my life. But again, with failure, obviously, if you’re, I think, courageous enough and bold enough that if you look at failure, it’s the greatest tool in mind. You know, there’s no teacher, there’s nothing that I learned in college or anything that failure did not teach me. You have to accept it and be able to actually look at yourself.

Brad (00:09:51):
Did that take a while? You mentioned the age group, 20 to 45.

Tom (00:09:56):
Oh, it took, yes. It took a long time. So I guess it was sort of like, you know, I think, you know, Mark knows this well and is documented between he and I, but, he gets to a point when you, you’re sort of at rock bottom and you sort of have to figure things out.

Brad (00:10:16):
Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of behavior experts that contend that you have to hit rock bottom before you’re really ready to make lasting change. Is that, is that your experience?

Tom (00:10:30):
Yes. And so I can easily say yes because I didn’t know, obviously I’d gone through e ebbs and flows in my life, and on paper my life looked awesome.

Brad (00:10:39):
Oh, you think so?

Tom (00:10:40):
Well, I mean, I, you, I went to a good school. I was, I was able to go, go off and model. We get into that stuff, and I was able to do triathlons. And you know, on paper, when you think about how everybody is now, you know, that seems like a glorious life. But I think honestly, and Mark was there at the beginning, he’s, he saw through a lot of the things Mm-Hmm. , you know, so in other words, when you, if you got a good race, race result, it was false insecurities. And then if you told like, okay, you’re going to Tokyo and you’re gonna go model, and you’re false insecurities, you know, because again, you get, you sort of buy into the, you know, concept of like, this is a great life and you’re, you’re around these people.

Tom (00:11:19):
You lived in LA. You know what it’s like.

Brad (00:11:22):
So you were an athletic guy. You were able to make a good income modeling and have all, all these areas, uh, covered you’re describing. But, um, what was false about it? Like, what didn’t feel right to you?

Tom (00:11:37):
Ultimately, it was the downfalls, because I didn’t know how to control, uh, my insecurities. Mm-Hmm. , which ultimately led to drinking and trying to numb things, not being able to deal with anger issues towards my family.

New Speaker (00:11:53):
Uhhuh . Uh,

New Speaker (00:11:56):
So the drinking was you, you said, uh, before, uh, we tend to grab for things Yes. When we fail. Yes. Is that, is that one of your grabs? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I wanted to numb anything. Okay. So I never took any hard drug. Mm-Hmm. , I never took drugs. Uh, but alcohol was definitely way I could, because it was so socially acceptable.

Brad (00:12:15):
Okay.

Tom (00:12:15):
You know, and modeling every let’s go drink, you know, or after a race, it’s after a hard day of modeling or racing. Well, you know, after our, you know, everybody would go to the nightclubs in Tokyo, you have a good time. And, you know, it’s, you know, you’d, from the olden days, you’d go at races, back in our days, there’d be cans. Sure. And it was like, if you go hard, work out hard, you, you’re gonna, you know, celebrate with your friends. And, um, and I was, you know, I was never afraid to say no to a party. Mm-Hmm. . But then I realized that alcohol, uh, you could numb things Okay. And escape very effectively, very effectively, immediately, and escape. And I, I was incredibly lucky that I never, I don’t know why, but I never got into, ’cause I, you know, during the UCLA days, it was in the eighties with cocaine and uhhuh, , all that stuff.

Tom (00:13:09):
And for some reason, that stuff never was my calling.

Brad (00:13:13):
You were, you were athletic and, um, career successful this whole time, and the alcohol was in the picture, and I could you get away with,

Tom (00:13:21):
Right. So I could train, go race, burn those calories off, you know, and then, you know, trained through the hangovers and ah, you know, it wasn’t the alcohol that was saying you can’t race anymore because you’re drinking too much. Okay. It was my friendships that were basically suffering that were like, Hey man, you gotta start. Maybe check your, check this at the door. Okay. ’cause you’re maybe sort of not dealing with some things, you know? Huh. And Mark obviously was one that was really in tune.

Brad (00:13:58):
You’re talking about Mark Sisson, who you’ve associated with for a long time. Mm-Hmm. .

Tom (00:14:08):
And, since I think I knew Mark since 86, 87.So he saw everything, everything.

Brad (00:14:10):
He saw it all playing out.

Tom (00:14:12):
He saw it all playing out.

Brad (00:14:13):
He was looking out for you. And, and he, I mean, we can get into the whole thing about the adoption and everything, but it was like, I used to use adoption, ’cause I was adopted as I was, I was entitled to things. I was the victim, And I remember years ago, he’s like, dude, you know, , that’s not gonna fly. You know, uh,

Brad (00:14:33):
He’s very good at the practicality and the, you know, cutting to the, the cause rather than, uh, trafficking and some of the things we like to do when we’re, we’re dancing around an issue. Yeah. Yeah. And you need friends like that, right?

Tom (00:14:50):
No, absolutely.

Brad (00:14:51):
It’s a lot of times we have friends who are sympathetic to our, you know, you know, feeling, feeling, uh, bad about being adopted or whatever. You’re, and then some people tell you straight, like, um, all right. Enough,

Tom (00:15:00):
Yeah. That, that was more from the get go. And he was always the person that told, and I, I’ll, I’ll re I’m like, Hey man, I’m a model. I’m doing this. And he’s like, yeah, but it’s not gonna last forever. Oh. And he was the very first, I had agencies and agents say, oh, it’s like, you know, they live for the moment, blah, blah, blah. And you get caught up in it. And he was the one person that was like, dude, this is not gonna last for save some money, et cetera. What are you gonna do, Uhhuh? So what are you gonna do? And it’s just like, you know, you have to think beyond this.

Brad (00:15:32):
How long did you do that for? Was it in exclusively in Japan or?

Tom (00:15:36):
Mostly in Japan. Asia slash Japan.

Brad (00:15:39):
So you’re traveling a lot back and forth?

Tom (00:15:42):
That, and then I was mixing triathlons because you could stay for three months model, live in the model apartments. So it sort of worked hand in hand. Then I got agencies in Barcelona, Athens, uh, so it was fun. But again, you know, when Mark said that stuff to me, I was like, what do you know, ma’am? , obviously he knew. So it was fun. You’re, you’re somewhat healthy, even if you think you’re drinking too much at time. So what was, what was the, that you needed to numb childhood? 100%. Okay. Yeah.

Brad (00:16:21):
Wow. This is gonna be a very helpful show for a lot of people. There’s, there’s a lot of experts talking about that childhood program and how we’re playing it out the rest of our lives. It sounds like also that you’ve come to terms with this more so than maybe the next person walking down the path where you can say, Hey, how’s your childhood affect you today? Most people are not quite connected, but you, you got into this, huh?

Tom (00:16:45):
Yes. I mean, so the, the bottom line is that I was never, alcohol it’s like when I would drink, I would drink, you know? So, but it wasn’t like I drank every day or every week, but when I wanted to numb something, I, I would seriously go, no, but where I could drink, you know, a lot of, you know, 2, 3, 4 bottles of wine. Um, what would happen is that they got to a point where the hanger would come out with the alcohol. Oh. And it would get me in trouble, Uhhuh.And then obviously there was people that did, didn’t know me that well, or intimately, like Mark Sisson did, where they were labeling me like, you’re an alcoholic. And, you know, so to me it was sort of like, no, I’m just full of this anger and this rage. And I had to figure out where that was coming from.

Tom (00:17:40):
So, to me, it’s like, I think when you talk about This is my own personal belief, I think when you talk about addiction with anything, whether it’s alcohol, drugs, trap, triathlon, keep going, triathlon, you’re trying to numb something. But that’s coming from childhood trauma in my own, in my honest belief. Mm-Hmm. , uh, and everybody, I think, you know, so in other words, when you think about if you had bad parents or if you were adopted, it comes from so many different spectrums. Right. You know? But again, I think what triggers people is that, is that childhood trauma. That’s, and that’s just my, because when I look at my past now, it’s like, it’s all affected by my childhood. But the amazing thing is, is that now that I’m, where I’m at now, it’s hard to say it, but it’s like we have total control over that.

Tom (00:18:36):
You know, but the question is, are you willing to accept it and not put, ’cause I would put blame on my father and my mom and the adoption, and I was dyslexic, you know? So there was all these other elements that sort of, and as I said, Mark was like, yeah, no, dude, you can’t play the victim. You gotta it. You can’t, you’re not entitled to anything. You’re gonna have to work hard. Um, and I was like, yeah, but you don’t know where I came from. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. , you don’t know how I hurt . Yeah. It’s like a perfect response, right? Yeah. You’re stuck. It’s not me, man. It’s everything else. Yeah. It’s someone else’s fault. Right. And so it’s like, if you don’t, you know, then if you don’t want to hear me and you don’t want to feel sorry for me, I’m gonna go have a drink, you know, a glass of wine , which would then turn into half a bottle. And then, I mean, your,

Brad (00:19:24):
Your perspective is unusual. Where you, you, you, you claim to be the victim, but then you’re turning that into an entitled mindset, which a lot of times someone feels like the victim, and they are meek and, uh, under confident and not entitled at all, but the opposite. So it’s kind of like your coping mechanism to feeling like you had a rough go was to now think that you could, you could do as you please or something?

Tom (00:19:53):
Yes. ,

Brad (00:19:56):
Which be full steam ahead. Mark doesn’t know what he’s talking about. My career is gonna last forever. Whatever. I’m not gonna have to deal with anything except for,

Tom (00:20:07):
I think the downfall I had was that, uh, again, and we can get into it, but at, I came from my parents that were divorced at two, then my mom sort of went on this journey of, uh, she wanted to travel the entire world, do her whole whole thing living out of school buses and vans. And, I had two parents that were highly educated. Like my dad was Harvard Med, Yale, my mom went to Barnard. But my mom lived this lifestyle where it was like my brother wanted to graduate two years early. ’cause he wanted to get out of the whole, whole system. My sister was an exchange student. Uh, and then I took myself out of where she was living in the Lopez Island in the San Juans.

Tom (00:20:56):
Oh. Uh, and then called my grandmother up, and I just couldn’t handle it anymore. And I decided to go to Seattle to go to a public school there. Wow. So with all that, what had happened is that then I wanted to go to a college and Mm-Hmm. with hard work and all this stuff, I realized that, you know, excuse the language, but F*** everybody. I can do it on my own. Mm-Hmm. . Because look at these results. Mm-Hmm. . And it empowered me in a really false way. Because again, if you go from Lopez Island to Roosevelt High School, down to UCLA, to then being discovered as a model, then going off and doing all these other things, it’s sort of a, it’s an incredible false sense of security.

Brad (00:21:45):
How’d you get discovered? Were you like, Tom hit now , you know, the pole vault at UCLA? He was jogging down Sunset Boulevard. And, um, Calvin Klein pulled over in his Rolls-Royce and said, um, I need you to hit my guy. And he was the guy in the poster. People are familiar with the, you know, the multi-story banner of him in his underwear looking from down, looking up. That was, that was aU-C-L-A pole vaulter discovered on Sunset Boulevard. Let’s hear about Tom’s.

Tom (00:22:10):
I was discovered on Sunset Boulevard, but at Duke’s Coffee Shop.

Brad (00:22:13):
No way.

Tom (00:22:14):
Do you remember Duke’s?

Brad (00:22:15):
No.

Tom (00:22:15):
Duke’s coffee shop was Ride.

Brad (00:22:17):
I should’ve gone there. Could’ve got discovered.

Tom (00:22:19):
So the classic thing was Duke”s Coffee Shop was a coffee shop right. By the Roxbury. Oh, down there. Okay. So, and it was borderline West Hollywood, but it was this coffee shop, all the band everybody would go to. And we would go to when we were at u, you know, UCLA, uh, for breakfasts on Saturdays. But and I would always get business cards from men asking me if, you know,

Brad (00:22:49):
’cause you’re in West Hollywood, I guess?

Tom (00:22:50):
West Hollywood, it was, I would get a lot of business cards. That was the play back then of business cards. Business cards.

Brad (00:22:55):
For those of you young viewers, listeners, business cards are these small card stock about three inches by one and a half. And it would have your job on there. Okay. Back to the show. Right. .

Tom (00:23:08):
And I remember,

Brad (00:23:09):
So they were propositioning you for, for business or for personal, or both?

Tom (00:23:12):
No, I think they would, you know, ’cause again, I was also working at the Sports Club, LA Uhhuh. And the funniest thing, it was the big ultimate, that’s actually where I met Mark. Right. But it was the big Ultimate Health Club that was on Sepulveda Boulevard that the Lakers would train out of. And so as a trainer there, and the funniest thing is, if we were late our pound commanders, we’d have to go to the Sports Connection in Beverly or in the West Hollywood one . So, which was to go work there, go work there. And it’s like, again, I have, I don’t care about being gay straight. I did. That doesn’t bother me. But you’d go there, it would be constantly guys asking you out . So, you know, it is what it is. And it would never affected me. But did you do coffee shop? You know, the guy comes up to me and gives me his business card, and I said, no, thank you. And he’s like, no, no, no. Call my wife. So I looked at it, it ended up being LA models, Uhhuh . So I think, so I called her up and two weeks later I was in Tokyo.

Brad (00:24:16):
Oh, yeah. So you were one of the, um, I, I think those were like 99% scam. And then 1% the guy saw you and thought, Hey, maybe this guy could go to Tokyo in two weeks.

Tom (00:24:26):
Right. So the thing with back in the day was that the Tokyo market was blowing up. You would make, it was a three year con or a three month contract. Because I’m half Hawaiian, I could cross between Uhhuh. I had a very unusual appeal. Yeah. Yeah. So that was, and plus my height. ’cause I’m small, so they, they, they don’t want a six two guy. They wanna, well, no, it’s because all the clothes over there are not for the six four Greek gauze that go to Paris or so, um, yeah. So that, you know, I have three weeks, or, you know, two weeks later I was in Tokyo.

Brad (00:25:02):
Were you still in school?

Tom (00:25:04):
Yes.

Brad (00:25:04):
So did you manage both of those?

Tom (00:25:06):
No. So I would take a leave of absence because we’re in the quarter system. Yeah. which worked great for a while until they said, dude, you, you’re gonna enter out and I’d have to go to Santa Monica Junior College. Oh. All these things to just make up things.

Brad (00:25:21):
But it was, it was really lucrative and it was a great discovery for you.

Tom (00:25:26):
Yeah. You would make, yeah. The contracts were like 80,000 to a hundred thousand for three, three months. And, uh, this is in the eighties, nineties, late eighties, early nineties.

Brad (00:25:34):
Uh, so you young listeners now that’s about four times or three x what, um, what we’re talking about today. So if you’re making 80,000 in the late eighties, that’s like making 320 today in a few months is good money. That’s big. Which again, I totally would’ve, would’ve done that if, if, um, if I was allowed. Yeah. So, yeah. So you’re young, you’re making a lot of money and you’re getting a lot of attention. I mean, a model is, you know, an attention. Uh, oh yeah. Attractive job.

Tom (00:26:06):
Yeah. It’s, when I see these people who want to be influencers now, I just shake my head. I’m like, they’ll learn, they’re gonna learn the hard one.

Brad (00:26:14):
Learn what?

Tom (00:26:16):
Again, It doesn’t matter. You just, one of the things that I learned from the whole experience going through the things that I went through with, you know, Mark Sisson and, and stuff, is eventually you have to be real to yourself. Honestly, I had to, you know, if you want to get into that, like, Mark took a time out with me for a couple years where it was like, I was like, oh, like, oh my gosh, he’s not there anymore.

Brad (00:26:43):
Was that a, was that a, um, calculated, um, play by him as looking at the big picture and saying, um, I can’t help you, so I’m going to try to help you indirectly by, by shutting you out or something?

Tom (00:26:56):
It could be. I mean, I know it could be.

Brad (00:26:58):
Maybe it was just sick of your too. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. So both, I mean, it was too much alcohol, too much.

Tom (00:27:04):
But you weren’t around him drinking too much, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, you were? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, it was, I’ll never forget the night. Oh, okay. He had, we had a dinner party at his house, and it was some anger coming out again? Is that, that was your pattern? To be honest, it could have been. I she don’t remember. Yeah. I knew that when I remember leaving and I knew Oh, that I burned that bridge. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was that day when I was driving back from Malibu up back to San Francisco. I pretty much quit drinking. I just stared at a wall, . It’s like, I kid you not, I had this my place and I didn’t, just, the only thing I knew how to do, which was, all right, these are the problems. This is what’s in the way. Mm-Hmm. ,

Tom (00:27:51):
You can fix this by, you know, digging it one day at a time and just go in the opposite direction.

Brad (00:27:58):
Are you saying that you did this by yourself, or did you go into?

Tom (00:28:04):
So a hundred percent. I had gone, people had said, you should go to AA meetings, you should go to a therapist. You should do all this stuff. And it was just the one thing that I did. I remember, I just, you know, no TV no, I just, I just looked at a wall. just cried and realized it was my dyslexia that was getting to me. It was all these things. And so the dyslexia to me was the one thing that made me always feel incredibly insecure. And so when I realized insecurities led to a lot of the things I wanted to numb. Yeah. Uh,

Tom (00:28:51):
Anyway, uh, so it’s dyslexia is thrown in there as, you know, maybe, maybe, you know, dyslexia is real and being a highly paid model at a young, at a young age is very difficult to accept that that’s real. It’s sort of like fantasy land. So with the dyslexia, it’s sort of from the get go, my mom always knew I was gonna have, there was a learning disability back in the day. Nobody knew what dyslexia was. Mm-Hmm. . It was just sort of re you’re going to the special needs room, , you’re, you’re gonna be held back. It was, and I hate to use the word, but they just basically, he’s, you know, semi retarded. Mm-Hmm. , you know, so there was no really, nobody knew anything about it. Right. Right. So it just, I would turn things around. The grammar was really bad. Yeah. I couldn’t, when I would read, I’d have to read a paragraph over and over and over, and without school driving me, because I had to get grades in order to, you know, Mm-Hmm.

Tom (00:29:50):
To get into schools and stuff, or to get, you know, to, to, to survive in school. Um, there was zero reason after the modeling came into existence, there was zero reason to continue that.

Brad (00:30:01):
Right. Because why Yeah. You’re suffering and now you’re on top of the world. Right.

Tom (00:30:06):
My mom was always like, this is, you know, the, the most important muscle you can work is your brain, and you’re gonna have to work extra hard. And I was like, ha ha. I don’t have to Now sort of, right.

Brad (00:30:17):
Because you mentioned your parents and they’re highly educated, um, correct. You know, realm. And that gets projected onto kids automatically, whether it’s hard driving parents or even ones that are in the background. It’s just there in your, in your being, you know?

Tom (00:30:32):
Yes. Um, so back to what I think really started to make me realize that I could control this whole thing was that I just literally went, I remember going on Amazon buying a book, and I’m like, okay, if you can’t read really well, you’re gonna master reading.

Tom (00:30:55):
Hmm. You’re gonna work this dyslexia, because again, if it’s one element that’s making you insecure, let’s just go focus there for 30 days. So for 30 days, the goal was to try to read a book for 30 days. The goal was to always go out and work out for 45 minutes. Mm-Hmm. Or just move. Mm-Hmm. , you know, so, and then obviously, and then not touch alcohol.

Brad (00:31:18):
This was, this was the starting point. You’re staring at a wall. Yep. Then you buy the book on Amazon. Yep. Then you’re gonna go get into your training, and you’re,

Tom (00:31:25):
And it was every single day was, if I could read a chapter, I could move for 45 minutes, and if I could stay away from the alcohol and being feeling like, you know, I was the victim. Mm. Which there’s plenty of times at night where it’d be all like, well, I could go down to bed, smoke and numb this real quick.

Tom (00:31:45):
Mm-Hmm. and screw Mark, screw everybody. I’m the victim. Uhhuh . Or I could, you know, I remember a couple times where I would want to go to BevMo and I would go out and there was this one walk I would do, and I remember it was like 9:00 PM or something. I just, I said, okay, you’re just gonna walk instead. Instead. Yeah. And you’re gonna wake up and you’re gonna redo the whole thing again tomorrow.

Brad (00:32:09):
That’s, that’s pretty heavy, man. That you’re able to pull that off. I mean, that, that’s, that that snares people. But when, especially at the start,

Tom (00:32:17):
if you break it down, it’s one chapter or one page, it’s 45 minutes. And if you really think about it, it’s like if, if somebody walked to a store from their house Mm-Hmm. , which is less than a mile, maybe a mile, yeah. And you walk back, you got your 45 minutes.

Tom (00:32:33):
Yeah. And then, you know, obviously the rest of the day you gotta fill, you know, fulfill it. Yeah. But if you, you just get it through 24 out of what I’ve learned with Ultra is if you can get through 24 hours the next day, there’s always, there’s always the next day. Mm-Hmm. and what is 24 hours? And the, the whole, you know, we we’re really talking about this whole thing. So to me it was like, all right, if you’re having a horrible day today, just get through it. You know, if you gotta stay up all night and look at a wall, what you gonna do? Because, you know, the shame and guilt and all the stuff I felt driving up I five from Malibu Yeah. Was really horrible.

Brad (00:33:16):
Well, that’s, that’s great. I mean, you know what it was, if you didn’t give a F and said F off to the host, then you’d be in a different position. But you were ready for, you were ready to transform. The shame and guilt was adaptive, as Brene Brown would say.

Tom (00:33:29):
Yeah, it was, it was horrible. You know, that I five drive pretty boring, pretty well a lot of time to think about.

Brad (00:33:36):
you’re staring at a wall or, or a line on the road. Yeah. It was the fact, there’s no distraction. Sorry.

Tom (00:33:41):
It probably was going the speed limit. It was the longest drive I’ve, I’ll ever remember mentally.

Brad (00:33:46):
That’s amazing. I mean, that was, you know, that’s a, that’s a true turning point.

Tom (00:33:50):
Yeah. It’s, it kicked me in the nuts hard.

Brad (00:33:53):
Yeah. So, I mean, obviously you had high regard for your relationship with Mark and the status of the relationship or the acceptance or whatever.

Tom (00:34:02):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he is the one person that was always there. As I said, he, he’s known everything about my life.

Tom (00:34:07):
He met my mom before she passed away, knew everything about my, just all the intimate things. Mm-Hmm. . And he is the one person that never gave up on me. And I gave up on the, our friendship. And that’s why I was like, ah, man, . It was like,

Brad (00:34:23):
So in that unfortunate evening incident there, uh, the dinner party. Is that the, is that the power of the alcohol that you were able to trash that, um, that respected relationship? Or was it maybe time for you to bust up your life because you wanted to hit bottom and that was your bottom? So, you know, like, how, why, why did that happen? Mark’s, Mark’s your guy. He’s always looking out for you. You go to a dinner party, you’re supposed to have a nice time, and instead you make a fool of yourself and get kicked out.

Tom (00:35:00):
Right. So, thi this was not one night. This was the, so this was the Hanukkah dinner party. You, it was night number seven. No, it, so there was always the Malibu triathlon. Yeah. I’d always visit him. He’d always be gracious and open his home to me, and I’d always stay there. So it, no, this was one too many times. Mm-Hmm. One too many drinks. Whereas done, so it wasn’t like one night. It wasn’t No, it was like multiple,

Brad (00:35:30):
It wasn’t like you broke Carrie’s expensive crystal. It was just finally after this pattern, you pushed something hard enough the seven, eight years.

Tom (00:35:38):
Yeah. He, he called the pattern out. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, and he, we, yeah, he was very, um, ’cause I remember I was down there with my friend and I remember they, he took him aside and it was like, is he okay? And, you know, and it was, it was things like that where it was like, now I look back on it and I’m like, man, that talk about friendship, talk about compassion and, and really caring, you know? And so to me it’s like, now that I can see that with clarity Mm-Hmm. , uh, those are the, that’s why I’m saying I’ll take failure any day because those are the gifts. Mm-Hmm. to understand of, you know, true compassion from somebody. Like, from Mark to me, it’s not about, it’s that he literally took a friend aside instead, is he okay.

Tom (00:36:30):
Right. Right. And I’m like, that’s priceless. You can’t. Yeah. You know, that’s true. Love and friendship and you gotta have some guts to do it too. I mean, it’s, it’s uncomfortable. And I find in, in my reflections, like every time I’ve stuck my neck out and been an annoying pain in the butt sitting down, I sat down with a couple about to get divorced, and we went out to dinner, the three of us. And I got into it with both of ’em. And by the end of the night, they were both off at me, . And I drove home with a big smile on my face. ’cause it’s like, you know what? I stepped up. I did what I needed to do. Right. And, they ended up getting divorced. And, but you know what I’m saying is like, you have to go for it if you really are a friend at, at every level.

Tom (00:37:14):
And, and it’s funny, I don’t know how many people know Mark at the level that I know him, but you, you know, the things that I, you see, and you, you know, obviously he’s well known. It’s like nobody knows the, the incredible, the real nuggets that are in there, you know. So to me that’s, as I said, if, you know, I barely, you know, I get to see him in Kona, in a couple weeks and barely, you know, we, you know, see each other just because obviously, you know, he lives in Miami and stuff now, but it’s so appreciative now, just if you know it’s a lunch or if it’s a, you know, a phone call or, so we’re gonna.

Brad (00:38:01):
We’re gonna try to keep the, the storyline going. But I do wonder with this, um, this, this modeling career, how did that wind up as, as Mark predicted? What do you mean? How did it wind up? How did it end?

Tom (00:38:15):
Yeah.

Brad (00:38:16):
How, why, when did it end?

Tom (00:38:18):
I went, yeah, I, I worked it for 25, 30 years. So when I moved to San Francisco, I was still doing commercials. And, uh, yeah, it is then, you know, it’s . I guess it’s, uh, unlike a career, uh, at the law firm. It could end tomorrow because it’s just your next gig and your next gig, or it could wind down or whatever it has. So here, here’s the blessing I had, and I never understood it. And I don’t recommend modeling , but especially females. But then when you see the models and you see the very few supermodels are like, you could land a cover of Vogue. You don’t get paid for anything. Mm-Hmm. . Okay. You can go all over Europe and Milan and all these things. You don’t, they don’t make money. So the big money is doing, um, commercial print. Mm-Hmm. , like holding a stick of butter. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. or doing, uh, you know, a regional commercial where you’re getting your residuals. Um, and so usually they want real people. They want people that, you know, I guess sort of look like me, which I don’t look white, I don’t look Hispanic, I don’t look, I mean, I can look Hispanic, I could look at Hawaiian, dress ’em up, whatever.

Tom (00:39:40):
Right. So in other words, it’s very appealing across the board to the art directors Yeah. That are then casting the commercial or the commercial print. And so I learned very quickly that you can make a fortune over in Tokyo, which slowly started to evaporate. Mm-Hmm. . Um, but then it was the commercial print. Mm-Hmm. and lifestyle stuff that where you could go on and on and on. You know, it wasn’t, I never shot high fashion stuff. Uhhuh . Yeah. It was always So a model, obviously. Yeah.

Brad (00:40:11):
A model in that respect, which people can expand their.

Tom (00:40:14):
I did, I did lifestyle. It’s like yeah, lifestyle. The dude with, with the wife holding the stick of butter, , which, you know, you, the Japanese butter love it. I did it. You know, the Microsoft, they would buy out, so in Microsoft would own you, but they would buy out for $25,000 for a year and they could use, so in other words, you can, you could never work for another, you know, you couldn’t work for Apple.

Tom (00:40:38):
Right. But Microsoft would own you for a year, and they could use your image for anything. And you’d go in and use you the photo shoot,

Brad (00:40:43):
like a sponsored athlete.

Tom (00:40:45):
Very much so. And so you have the option of like, do you want the contract? Yeah. And I was like, for, yeah. For 25 grand for a year. Sure. Why not? Yeah. . Yeah. So I did stuff for AT&T, Microsoft, all these companies where, you know, and, but again, it’s, I wish I had a little more maturity with it, so.

Brad (00:41:07):
Well, that seems like a really challenging thing to have your head screwed on straight in that type of, it’s, it’s a distorted environment. It’s not totally , um, putting in your 17 years at the, at the post office and then, you know. Yeah. There’s nothing that’s,

Tom (00:41:25):
it’s an interesting thing when you go into a casting room with 20 guys that look just like and you’re scary. Yeah. You’re ripped apart. Mm-Hmm. So again, with somebody who came from a background of being really insecure with the adoption and everything. Yeah. Oh, it was, it was horrible.

Brad (00:41:44):
But this is so interesting because obviously we can all relate to that how, how you easily intimidated by tremendous competition, but then you were successful beyond wildest imagination. And so how do you reconcile? Like, you’re still insecure, you still got quote issues from childhood, but then you’re, you’re the butter guy, you’re the butter stick guy on the, on the billboard. You, you couldn’t, I mean, uh, at a certain point, I would imagine like, you’d have to start convincing yourself, geez, maybe I am, um, pretty awesome and successful at my career.

Tom (00:42:20):
It can go both ways. Meaning you can feel incredibly, you can get hammered really hard and you build a wall, which is you’re in denial, if that makes any sense.

Tom (00:42:33):
Yeah. And it can flip around in one day, 24 hours where you’re the greatest thing on earth. Yeah. If that makes, and that can really F you up. Oh, totally. Yeah. As in like, you know, again, when I lived in LA I think for 18 years, and it was like, if you were with the right agency, you got to the right parties and you knew the right people, and it was like, yeah. You know, but again, it’s sort of, that doesn’t help when it comes to, I turn words around when I read a book, Uhhuh , it doesn’t help when I still feel really insecure about my adoption. Yeah. It doesn’t help with the anger towards my dad, because then it’s sort of like, oh, I went from Lopez to Roosevelt to UCLA to being a model to go F*** everybody. Look at me. Look how great I am. Where again, Mark was the one guy who’s could see right through that stuff. And I never saw, I’ve never met somebody that could see that clearly. ’cause everything that he told me back in the nineties, I think came true. . It was like, he probably doesn’t even know that, because I’m like, oh man, he is Right.

Brad (00:43:43):
Wow. So, um, so you were, uh, staring at the wall, then you got the book on Amazon, you’re doing your 45 minute walk, so you’re staying away from alcohol. And, um, how’s that? How’s that? Continuing on?

Tom (00:43:58):
So here’s the funniest thing. So if you talk about addiction and you talk is so something good, like every single day, I’m gonna do 45 minutes. Mm-Hmm. has also been incredibly toxic because I have not, not worked out Uhhuh now for this coming November Yeah. Will be eight years stray without missing a down. Wow. And I have not from illness or anything, or COVID, nothing has taken.

Brad (00:44:26):
Traveling across the international dateline COVID. You’re out there getting a sweat on or Right?

Tom (00:44:32):
Nothing. Dang. So I’ve walked around in an airport. Sure. Yeah. Seven miles. Oh, just around a terminal. Right. Just to, to keep the streak going.

Brad (00:44:41):
Uh, yes. Streaks are delicate, I think. And, um, of course most people would la a exercise streak. But do you feel like you, you’ve had that tight wire where maybe it could compromise your health, mental or physical?

Tom (00:44:57):
Do I feel that?

Brad (00:44:58):
Yeah.

Tom (00:44:58):
Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s incredibly unhealthy.

Brad (00:45:02):
So it’s being replaced. You’re replacing alcohol. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s an incredible, but again, you have to step forward,

Tom (00:45:08):
But you, again, you have to re that. That’s the loaded gun is because here’s, here’s my thing is you have to realize, I never, alcohol never called me. So in other words, if I’m not drinking, and let’s say I’m in a relationship, but the number one thing is I gotta work out and I have to do this race, or I have, it’s me, me, me, me. Yeah. It’s just as toxic Yeah. As drinking. Yeah. Because it ultimately, then it’s gonna destroy a relationship. I mean,

Brad (00:45:37):
It could, but there’s a lot of people working with a lot of addictions and just doing the best they can. But, um, you know, the Buddhist says attachment needs a suffering, which is, which is true. You’re, you’re attached to whatever. And, um, we have, we, we write about this in, in the Born to Walk book, there’s a chapter called the Obligate Runner. And the Obligate Runner is one who needs their workout in order to feel whole or to, to, to feel baseline. In other words, they feel bad if they miss a workout. And that is the definition of addiction. Yeah. And it’s just, it’s me also, society completely disregards your perspective because they’re using exercise to treat the more serious addictions. I mean, running and, and, and, and exercise is, is one of the main protocols to keep people away from, from drugs. Right. So, my question, so now, how do you get support for a person who’s suffering from an exercise addiction?

Tom (00:46:33):
Oh, generally it’s people have no, uh, no empathy. So my question to you is like, and I don’t know, ’cause it’s like, it, it doesn’t really affect my life anymore, but you see a lot of recovering alcoholics doing Ironmans. Mm-Hmm. . Okay. Or doing ultrasound, other mile races. To me, it’s sort of like with, when you really str, ’cause what I’ve come to terms of is any inflammation Mm-Hmm. , any stress load is gonna kill us. So stress load could be obviously physical stress, mental stress, you know, any kind of diet we’re eating with inflammatory foods, alcohol, all these things. But then you have this group that thinks that racing, you know, I’m, I don’t drink anymore, but I’m gonna go race nine Ironmans in a year. . And I’m like, what’s, what is, again, I’m not saying the person that’s, you know, waking up at or sitting outside the Safeway at 6:00 AM to try to get booze. Mm-Hmm. , I’m saying, Hey, I’m not, I, I don’t drink anymore, but I’ve only rac ed only four Ironmans this year. So you take the four irons and you multiply it by how many hours they’ve worked out. Mm-Hmm. . And then you look at the diets and the sugars they eat in order to do it. It’s like this vicious. Yeah. And that’s where I’ve talked about when you think about ego. So the validation of, like, I, you know, and I don’t know how many Ironmans I’ve raced, but I am very proud that I don’t have an Ironman tattoo. .

Brad (00:47:58):
My favorite, uh, my favorite snide comment about that is from Andrew McNaughton. And he’ll see someone at the pool, uh, as, as you might know, some, a lot of times the Ironman tattoo goes on the hip. So it’s, it’s revealed with a Speedo. It’s not, not otherwise. And they put ’em on their calf too, like where the race number goes. But a lot of times it’s there, you see someone at the pool and Andrew would go up to someone and say, um, how much should you get paid to have that tattoo? And the person’s like, what do you mean I paid 180 bucks to the tattoo artist? He goes, but you’re putting a corporate logo on your body, they should pay you. That’s like, you know, PELUVA can, can pay us to sponsor this show with logos, but if I get a PELUVA tattoo on my body, I am going to, I’m going to ask for top dollar, top dollar man a tattoo.

Brad (00:48:45):
And you give, are you kidding? You give residuals, residuals off of that. So the Ironman tattoo is, um, that’s, that’s a sign of being deep into the game.

Tom (00:48:51):
Yeah. No, I mean, what I’m saying is you can do, do I hold my, do whatever you want to do.

Brad (00:48:55):
That’s right. Yeah. But to you earn the tattoo in that case.

Tom (00:48:56):
But to me, that, that, that’s ego. Right? That’s I’m a part of something. And what I’ve learned now is that, I mean, we can get into it with the walking and all this stuff. To me it’s like the greatest gift has been to understand why I drink that time I spent leaving Mark’s house, understanding how ego, if you let it go, you still get these endorphins and you still get these incredible goals that you can go after. But there’s such a personal journey. Mm.

Tom (00:49:28):
So in other words, when I do, you know, these trail runs, it’s, I don’t care how I do because the brilliance of it is that you can hike, you can walk, and then you can show up and you can actually, ’cause of my background Mm-Hmm. , I can still fire up the engine. Mm-Hmm. and run, not very fast, but I can, I can hit the cutoff times and I can have the time of my life and enjoy it. And it’s for me. Right. And that’s all I care about is because again, it’s, I feel like I’m going in a direction, but I’m really aware that, okay, what are the costs? Mm-Hmm. You know, if I go, if you go, you know, 35 miles, that’s a cost. If you go a hundred K, which is 62 miles, that’s all you go into the bank again. And then you get these people that wanna do UTMB, which is a hundred miler or western states.

Tom (00:50:17):
I’m not saying it’s wrong, but again, how much are you willing to go to the bank? And then you think about the training, you think about the sugars and the sleep patterns and all these things. And I don’t know, I don’t, it’s not worth it to me. Well, it’s not wrong, but it’s not healthy.

Brad (00:50:32):
So we don’t have to judge. No, it’s anybody’s things that, that turn them on and their passions and their goals. But it’s, it’s decidedly unhealthy and you can’t argue your way out of that.

Tom (00:50:38):
Right. So I guess the whole point I’m getting at, I’ve learned, the more I let my ego go, the more I can be in tune. There’s nothing more enjoyable to me than hiking and walking by myself with no music. Huh. That’s it. And I realize it’s because I’m fine tuning this incredible endurance machine I’ve had for four decades, and then I really pay attention to if my back starts to go or where the fatigue is, because then it’s really simple.

Tom (00:51:13):
I just, you know, I functional strength. You don’t have to do a while. You, he showed me some of that earlier , my back’s a little stiff and little found rash. Yeah. You can throw kettlebell around. And I learned from Peter Park the simplicity of just, he’s like, you know, are you doing, you know, hangs, are you hanging grip strength? Yeah. I’m like, why, why would I do that? He’s like, okay, whatever. So the idea of doing grip strength, what people don’t really realize how credible that is and over how.

Brad (00:51:42):
it’s a longevity marker. That’s why the machines in most doctors’ offices, it’s a proxy for longevity.

Tom (00:51:48):
It’s really, I didn’t even know that.

Brad (00:51:48):
Yeah. If you’re grip strength is weak, it’s directly correlated with your, with your predicted lifespan.

Tom (00:51:53):
Really?

Brad (00:51:54):
Yeah. And they also have research for squat competency, pushup competency, your time in the one mile run, that’s the famous Cooper Institute marker. If you’re fast, if you’re under eight minutes at age 50 in the mile or nine minutes for females, you have a high predictability of living to 85 in good health. If you’re over 12 minutes or 13 minutes at age 50, if you can’t break 12 or 13 for an all out mile, you have a hugely increased risk of demise and accelerated aging. It’s a, it’s obviously it’s a proxy, but we need to respect these things even more than, oh, your blood work looks normal this year. See you next year. It’s like, what’s your grip strength, man? What’s your, what’s your hang time? Right. All that stuff. It’s wonderful. . Yeah.

Tom (00:52:38):
So anyway, every day I go out, it’s like, it’s these small, teeny things. I’m so in tune with my body where I’m like, you know, I just pivot and make it, you know, Mark likes that word, by the way. Pivot.

Brad (00:52:49):
He made it up and now everybody uses it in every industry. Pivot. MBA schools have a pivot, pivot 1 0 3 class.

Tom (00:52:57):
So some weeks I really focus on just strength, mobility, nice functional strength mobility, just really simple. Mm-Hmm. maybe, you know, two mile walk. And then sometimes I’ll lay it down and go for, you know, 15, 15, 20 mile. Wow. You know, rush slash wire power hike. Yeah. But I just, I’m super in tune of just how my body feels at this point.

Brad (00:53:23):
So your, your ego’s kept in check finally after years and years. It’s, no, it’s still there. But I mean, do you feel like, uh, re relating to the, the exercise streak, do you feel like, do you strive for more personal growth transformation there where you don’t need to be connected in that way? Or do you, are you, are you okay with it? I mean, it’s, there’s 24 hours in a day. You’re only exercising for one on an easy day. So it’s not the, I’m, I’m not terribly concerned that you’re, you’re addicted to a streak, but do you know what I mean? Like, is there, is there another level of ascension where, um, you’re enjoying whatever in life brings you and, and you can go with the flow. And if you miss a workout, you’re okay. You’ll do it the next day. That’s what I’m asking.

Tom (00:54:11):
So I thought the thing that I was gonna attack at the end of this year was to stop the streak. Yeah. Because I thought, that’s the night, that’s me going to Amazon getting a book, reading a book. Because if I could stop the streak, yeah. I’m gonna be able to control this obsession that, you know, it’s day 3000 or whatever it is in a row, Uhhuh.

Tom (00:54:34):
But then I started to realize that I never get in my car. I always walk to the salon and I always walk back and it takes me 55 minutes to 60 and I always get two and a half miles. And it’s, I just don’t know how I ever, the streak ever ends. Yeah. I wouldn’t even, count that as like an as as a fitness addiction. Because it’s a whole nother category. Right. But, you know, it’s still, when you think about it, which is crazy. And the funniest thing is, you know, it is sort of going off on a tangent, but there’s a McDonald’s and a Jack in a box on the way home from the bank. Yeah. And it’s insanity when I think about it is because I’ve actually had people I know that live in Lafayette go, why? We saw you with a backpack.

Tom (00:55:19):
Why, why? And I’m like, well, I was walking What doing? I was walking to the store. Why? Yeah. And then you want, by McDonald. McDonald, that’s a joke. If you, if you go by McDonald’s during 12 to one 30 in the afternoon, there’s a line and then you take a look inside the car and you’re like, there’s no way that human being has ever walked to the store. Yeah. And maybe you go to this. Anyway, it’s just so, it’s sort of just built in and I just can’t imagine, because, you know, I’m not one of those types that goes to the store and buys a week’s worth of groceries. .

Brad (00:55:57):
You go every day like a proper, European living healthy, you know, the Blue Zone? Yeah. Yeah. Man. . Um, so in recent years, you quote unquote retired and launched this odyssey. So I want to hear more about that. ’cause um, I didn’t, I I really haven’t kept too close connection with you for many years, even though I’ve known you. But then, like, I keep looking on Instagram and you’re in a different country at a different race with your arm around the world champion of whatever sport. And I’m like, Mark, what’s this guy doing? Everything I see on him, he’s, he’s in the Ironman, he’s at the Mon Blanc Ultra Trail, he’s back at the Ironman, he’s now doing this. He’s now doing that. So you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re cranking up the volume here. What’s going on?

Tom (00:56:42):
Like, how do I get, like what do you mean?

Brad (00:56:44):
Yeah, how are you getting around? What are you doing going to all these races and how are you schmoozing with all the top athletes in the world every week on Instagram ?

Tom (00:56:54):
Well, to be honest, life is really odd. And so to me, I don’t know even how to explain this thing. I honestly feel like I’ve won the lottery. And what I mean by that, it’s, when you think about how I was brought up and the relationship I had with my father, which there was non-existent.

Brad (00:57:14):
Wow. Um, this is because divorce happened at age two?

Tom (00:57:19):
My dad was just, he was married to his work. He was an eye surgeon, had his prior, he was married to his work. Yeah. And, and he wanted nothing to do with his children. And that that’s, you know, that’s,

Brad (00:57:28):
is this your adoptive parents?

Tom (00:57:30):
Yes.

Brad (00:57:30):
Okay. So everything you’re saying is about your adoptive mom and dad.

Tom (00:57:33):
Correct.

New Speaker (00:57:33):
And they got divorced at age two?

Tom (00:57:35):
Two.

Brad (00:57:35):
So you lived with your mom and didn’t see your dad much?

Tom (00:57:38):
No. It was one of those things where I would see our dad every three weeks. And then my mom decided, uh, that she was, she wanted us to see the world. Right. Um, and it’s weird just ’cause people are like, oh, that sounds so cool. But she literally bought a school bus, Uhhuh . And she trans she made it into, it was probably the first time it ever happened, made, is, you know, a place you could live. And we literally, when it was still British, Honduras and Guatemala, he was a professor at San Miguel de Allende, which is a town down in Mexico. We spent two to three years in Mexico. Uh, then that’s one instance. Then she had this great idea she was gonna buy a camper in London, . And we were gonna go to every single country in Europe, even when Yugoslavia was Yugoslavia . So we would be in each country for a month and we had to learn everything about that country and then take correspondence courses.

Tom (00:58:38):
Wow. So on paper sounds really phenomenal and sexy, but when you think about we had no friends.

Brad (00:58:47):
Wait, how old?

Tom (00:58:49):
It started in 1972.

New Speaker (00:58:52):
Mexico?

Tom (00:58:53):
Yeah. And then it continued. Europe was.

Brad (00:58:56):
So how old are you at these times?

Tom (00:58:58):
I don’t know. I’m 58 now. Your as remember, I’m just life slow.

Brad (00:59:03):
We’re similar age. So you started as a young guy. I mean, six years old. I born 66.

Tom (00:59:08):
Yeah. Yeah. I’ve gone through I don’t know how many past,

Brad (00:59:11):
How did I know that so quickly?

Tom (00:59:13):
’cause Yeah, you’re brilliant. Yeah. The stamps, , those are you young listeners. They used to have these passports that you’d stamp with a decorative stamp. And now I think they just do, they hover it over the, the Apple page. You get outta your, if you want a stamp, they like, get outta here.

Brad (00:59:28):
But when he says fill the passport, it means the passport, the little booklet has a bunch of pages and they stamp each time you enter a country.

Tom (00:59:35):
So if you fill a passport, you’re, you’re legit.

Tom (00:59:39):
And then, then if you filled it up and it wasn’t expired, you got extended pages. You remember those? Wow.

Brad (00:59:44):
A little fold in thing.

Tom (00:59:45):
Yeah, no, you literally, it was a sticker and new thing. Yeah.

Brad (00:59:48):
Crazy. Wow. Extended pages. Yeah. So that, I mean, yeah. I I can, I can understand. It’s, it’s not, um, template and it requires, like you said, no friends and, and you’re, you’re looking for, I guess, yeah.

Tom (01:00:02):
So to get to your que So basically what had happened is it did affect my brother and sister were biological. Yeah. Uh, I was an adopted kid. It did, it sort of had an effect on us. Yeah. None of us had a relationship with our dad. Dad is 94 now. Mm-Hmm. certainly not there anymore. Mm-Hmm. . All the kids have been gifted money now, really?

Tom (01:00:32):
Um, where it’s allowed me to never have to work again. And then, so when you think about finances and you think about the lessons I’ve learned from Mark and alcohol, what I’ve realized, the greatest thing, currency that you have and that I, that money has bought me is time. So to me, time equals freedom too. The most precious thing I have. And it’s not like I have oodles of money, but I have the greatest currency, which is time. I have time to spend with the people I really care about. And for somebody like Mark for an example, it’s like I get to work on that friendship, even if it’s once a year, twice a year. I get to see him once every two years, I should say. I wanna invest in that, where it’s just like, I’d rather have less friends and work on the ones that mean the most to me.

Tom (01:01:33):
And then being able to have time to do anything you want. That our material objects, whether it’s cars, watches, homes, lavish hotels or whatever, that’s the gift. Mm-Hmm. I mean, to this day I still I’m on Expedia and get the ticket where you don’t know what seat you’re in until you check in. Right, right. So I refuse. I it’s stuck. I’m gonna save a hundred dollars. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, you know, bit off. Maybe back it by the bathroom where you can’t you, um, bummer. Yeah. But I’m like, it can’t be that bad. It’s only what’s the longest,

Brad (01:02:12):
There’s no smoking section anymore, you know, so it’s not that bad. So it’s better than driving.

Tom (01:02:17):
Some people call me cheap, but I just say, Hey man, it allows me to have more time. .

Brad (01:02:25):
So, so you’ve chosen to use this free time on a pretty impressive binge of endurance achievements and, and conquest.

Tom (01:02:38):
Yeah. So I think what happened was that during my, I think, I don’t know, most people hate me for saying that I like COVID the pandemic. And the reason why is because the only thing you could go do would be go to like, you know, Yosemite for example. Yeah. And there was no race and you had to be creative. And we, my friend and I, Joanie were tying like clouds rustic together. Um, like, you know, the clouds rest. Yeah. The half no heights to the El Cap trail. You know, you could do all these things where it was, you know, 30, you know, there are a lot of miles of, lot of vertical, you know, no finishers awards, no attach involved, no lines. No lines. And, um, so to just, you know, I sort of got into this thing with ultra running where I was like, huh, I wonder what a 50 K is like.

Tom (01:03:32):
Mm huh. What a is like, um, if I could have anything, it would be, I spent two years ago in Shaman during UCMB and uh,

Brad (01:03:45):
it’s a big ultra race there. Ultra trail in.

Tom (01:03:47):
Yeah. And I, I would just, could literally wake up at three in the morning, put my head torch on, and just get lost. And so it wasn’t, I did it like the ETC, which is the baby race out there. Yeah. But to me it was just getting lost out in the, in the, that region.

Brad (01:04:08):
And so you’re starting from your, from lodging in a, in a town, then you’re heading out onto the trail. How, how does it work? I’m sorry? How does it work?

Tom (01:04:17):
You, you go out the door? Yeah.

Brad (01:04:19):
I mean, is it, is it a multi-day event or something?

Tom (01:04:21):
No, I would go out and just break the sections up. So I would go up and just vets for an example. It’s, there’s so many trail systems, but you just get lost out there from days and or hours or whatever you, you know, obviously to circum from Mount Blanc is what, 110 miles. Okay. At 32,000 vertical. A lot of people will hike it in 10 days, seven days. Yeah. The race, well, you know, most people are doing the race in, you know, the 19 hours to 48 hours. Yeah. Um, but you can break it up. You know, you can, you know, my race was in Cor Maier, which is right on through the long tunnel. Uh, same sort of region. Completely different mountains. Uh, so the experiences are just . Uh, you know, I, I would prefer to do that than swimming Kailua Bay at Ironman . Uh,

Brad (01:05:24):
So you, are you doing Ironman distance tries or any tries anymore?

Tom (01:05:29):
Well here’s a funny story. , one night I was, the only race I’ve never done that I’ve always thought about doing was Roth.

Brad (01:05:39):
Roth Iron Man in Germany, in the town of Roth jersey. You wrote, you can’t get in. Oh yeah. It’s every packed, all these Yeah.

Tom (01:05:48):
It’s impossible to get in. There was 41 available slots on this Christmas lottery, and I just, you know, I signed up with 7,000 people and minute or something, and didn’t get in.

Brad (01:06:04):
Imagine that.

Tom (01:06:04):
And then the funniest thing is that I got an email the next day and they said, you’re the, you’re the first lucky loser. And sent somebody didn’t pay for it. I got in.

Brad (01:06:15):
Oh my gosh.So you were 42nd outta 7,000. Yeah. .

Tom (01:06:19):
And it was literally like,

Brad (01:06:20):
your numbers up, man.

Tom (01:06:23):
The funniest thing, unlike Iron Man, I’ve deferred it for two and a half years and you get your money back. And the funniest thing is when you defer it, or you just, you just say, I don’t want to do it, you automatically get an option to race again. Wow. So why, to answer your question, tell it. Yeah. To.

Brad (01:06:40):
You’re gonna do it someday?

Tom (01:06:41):
I’m doing it in July.

Brad (01:06:42):
Oh, wow. Okay.

Tom (01:06:43):
And I’m gonna rent a bike and it’s gonna be a road bike. Yeah. I’m not gonna train for it. Oh. Uh, ’cause I did Ironman California two years ago. Yeah. On no training.

Brad (01:06:55):
It came. Okay?

Tom (01:06:56):
Yeah, because.

Brad (01:06:57):
’cause you’re out there exercising every day, man,

Tom (01:07:01):
I don’t know about that either. Swimming in that river was something and running through downtown Sacramento.

Brad (01:07:06):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I couldn’t believe they put people in the Sacramento River. Right. It’s, it’s like the Mississippi that was a once not clean and pristine. It’s a massive river flowing the whole length of the state. . Yeah. It was a one and done.

Tom (01:07:19):
Yeah. Uh, but I think I’m gonna, that will be it for triathlon after that.

Brad (01:07:24):
And what’s ahead for you in the, in the years ahead? Like, you got your time, you can take it in any direction.

Tom (01:07:35):
Uh, just every single day, man. Trying to create the ultimate blueprint.

Brad (01:07:42):
Tom Hodge people Very interesting conversation. I knew, I knew we’d, I knew we’d get some fun stuff out of this. There you go. You know, one more follow up, I’m gonna say, when we hear about this subject of childhood trauma all the time, it’s now coming into the limelight as a big thing. Yeah. And all the therapists are talking about it and hitting the, the point that ages zero to seven is when you’re, you’re being programmed in the subconscious and then you’re carrying these things and living out these, um, these issues for the rest of your life in different ways. Um, and you spent a lot of time reflecting on this and hitting, hitting bottom as you described. What do you think’s a tip or a technique to break through from this shit that ruins or manages our lives when it was a long time ago? And, and as Mark Sisson say, you know, you can forget about that shit, quit being a victim, but it’s not so easy in real life. How, what is that trigger that can help someone make a breakthrough relating specifically to that?

Tom (01:08:49):
Here’s the bottom line. The bottom line is I think you have to really look at who’s around you. Okay. In present, in present time, in just in present time. Who, who are your friends? Who are the people that are influencing you, unfortunately in social media now? Like what inspire, if, if passion race is, or whatever’s inspiring you in social media? I think that that’s, no, it’s not good. Mm-Hmm. Meaning that you have to be in my humble opinion. And you have to be able to sit in your own, your own thoughts and come up with your own conclusion. Mm. You cannot have a therapist.

Tom (01:09:25):
You can’t have no nothing and bad about Mark being telling me these things. Obviously it didn’t work ’cause I never listened to ’em. So I need to listen. I forgot about that element of the story. Yeah. , I’ve known Mark since 86, and, uh, you never listened. Yeah. Yeah. The dinner party occurred in 2000, something, something. So, yeah. Yeah. So to me, it’s like you have to be able to sit your own shit, understand that you got an issue. You, I can’t have easy distractions and you slowly have to peel the layers off. Why? Like, why am I insecure? Oh, it is. Because it’s like I, I I don’t feel like I can read well and I’m a grown man. Mm-Hmm. of Why do you feel insecure? Oh, it’s because maybe you have a little bit of this insecurity about being adopted. Mm-Hmm. , it has nothing to do with the abandonment issues and all that stuff.

Tom (01:10:18):
It’s like, why are you so angry at your dad? Mm-Hmm. . Okay. It’s like if he treated you poorly, it doesn’t mean that that has to affect your life anymore. Mm-Hmm. . So when, when I was able to really slow things down and not overthink it, and just as I said, if I can get through today and just be okay with who I am, me. Yeah. It doesn’t matter. Yeah. It doesn’t, because I don’t care what anybody thinks anymore. I’m, I am who I am, and I’m flawed and I have faults and I make mistakes. And at the end of the day, it’s, it’s like, Hey man, it’s okay to make mistakes. And it is okay to take ownership of Yeah. I was right. I made a mistake. I can’t change it, but it’s my mistake. I don’t really care what you think. I’ll correct it is because I know I’m wrong.

Tom (01:11:12):
And a lot of times I feel like when I see people, I didn’t do that. I’m not wrong. They’re trying to convince other people and not take ownership of what Mm-Hmm. is simply, Hey man, if you drink too much, there’s a reason why. Mm-Hmm. , if you have anger, there’s a reason why it wasn’t like you were. You know, you’re not an angry human being. When you come out into the world, things affect it and it’s, it is okay. Yeah. You know, and you have all these people would put horrible labels on you. Mm-Hmm. You know, meaning that yes, in my day, you know, you had dyslexic, you were retarded. Mm-Hmm. , you know, some people called me a raging alcoholic and they had the right Mm-Hmm. , you know, ’cause that’s what behavior patterns were. But to me, when you’re an alcoholic, it’s somebody who has to have a drink every single day.

Tom (01:12:02):
And if you can’t stop it, I’m not saying you are. Yeah. But if you can’t stop having a drink every single day, maybe there’s an issue there, which get old discussion about that. But Yeah. And again, to me, that’s why I look at the street. ’cause Yeah. There’s still an addition there. Yeah. So to me it’s sort of like, that’s not where I want to go in my life. Hmm. You know,

Brad (01:12:26):
You said one thing in passing that I think is really important and, uh, it was no distractions.

Tom (01:12:33):
Zero.

Brad (01:12:33):
Because I see now, especially like our age, we’re the same age. We’ve had half of our lives to, to reference in the past where there wasn’t that constant distraction, that ability to engage digitally and, and escape in a way. And so now I think we have the potential now to live the rest of our lives in almost constant distraction all the time. So we don’t have to face or deal with anything. But it keeps rearing its ugly head. Like you described. Um, you know, the, the drinking, bringing out anger issues. It’s like the, the drinking was just a catalyst for something that’s there all the time because it hasn’t been dealt with.

Tom (01:13:10):
Correct.

Brad (01:13:10):
Yeah.

Tom (01:13:11):
I mean, today’s world, I don’t, I don’t know how you could be a kid growing up in today’s world. It’s just, you know, it is just too much out there. And, you know, and again, it’s like cj, I don’t know what you wanna call it again, meditation it, I’ve always used this thing in my mind. I don’t know. I use, I call it clearing the, um, Thanksgiving table off. Mm-Hmm. And the idea is that if you can close your eyes Mm-Hmm. And you can slowly clear the table off, great to do that is a lot harder than it thinks.

Tom (01:13:48):
Because again, if you get the night for the flu off, and then all of a sudden you think about, you know, the weather today, that’s usually what will happen. Right. So again, you have to go back. Oh, and you, you again. So the process is that can you slow your thought process down in the simplest format? You know? So in other words, you have all these apps and these self-help people on social media. I’m like, dude, just clear off a me thing. If you can’t do it , it’s, it doesn’t mean that you’re not, you gotta go o It’s it’s repetition. Yeah. Over and over and over. Yeah. And what it’s gonna teach you is to slowly slow your brain down. Yeah. To where you’re calm. It’s free. You’re not, you don’t have to. And it’s completely afraid.

Brad (01:14:31):
This guy is literally at the Thanksgiving table.

Tom (01:14:33):
I was literally talking to this guy the other day and he was saying that the one thing that nobody does and everybody’s about, I can’t sleep and I can’t do this. But if you think about how amped up you are all day, he goes, all you have to do is stretch, stretch at night. Very simple. Mm-Hmm.